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Post by Chadness on Oct 3, 2006 14:34:41 GMT -5
Cool new MMORPG coming out early next year, you guys should check it out: www.vanguardsoh.comSome things I like about it already: 1) Housing You can pick out a plot of land and purchase it, then build a house on it, allow only yourself, only certain people, only your guild or anyone in between into it, store items in it that are only accessable to you, decorate it, etc. Guild housing for your entire guild with different access levels, shared guild storage, etc. Shops, inns, etc., you can build and own these, craft your wares, rent out storage space to travelers, and do nothing but this in-game. 2) "Three sphere" System Adventuring, crafting and diplomacy. You can choose to do only one, all three or a combination of all three. None are needed to max out the other one. If you wanted to just spend your time as a level 1 character but build up to a master crafter of some sort, sit in town at your store all day and make/sell wares, and only travel to find rare items, you can. If you want to adventure all day and ignore crafting and diplomacy and become the most powerful warrior, you can. None of the "spheres" forces you into doing anything in the others. 3) Travel Very limited teleportation. Real-time travel to anywhere you can see. No "fake" boundaries to keep you out of an area. Seamless world (similar to WoW but even moreso, WoW has "walls" that are invisible and you can't walk across). Travel will be by foot, by horse, by carriage, by player-owned boats (yes, you can build and own your own boat or carriage to travel around in). This lends to having player-run inns all over the place to temporarily rent space to store stuff in as you travel. 3a) Travel - caravans A caravan is a guild-built game mechanic that allows your character to travel with your guild even when you're offline. Because travel is meaningful and you can't traverse the world in a matter of only a few minutes, you need a way to keep up and hang out with your guild since you can't get from point A to point B in the blink of an eye. 4) Fellowships Within a guild or between just a few friends, if you're part of a fellowship your character gains experience while its offline if anyone else in the fellowship gains experience. 5) Many character paths The "three sphere" system above is an example of three different character paths you can take and focus on. But your character can be more, as well. Want to be a pirate and sail the seas looking for treasure, exploring islands and raiding player-created villages? You can. Want to be a master crafter sitting in a city suburb at your own shop, with your own hired NPC salesmen, pawning your wares and traveling the world to find rare and expensive crafting materials? You can. Want to be an adventurer who's goal is to obtain and use the best gear imaginable and fight the toughest mosters in all the land? You can. Want to be a skilled diplomat who aids his allies in traversing hostile territory through diplomacy and who can wheel and deal with players and NPCs to purchase land for player-created villages, houses, stores, docks, camps and other things? Go ahead, you can do it. Yes, it all sounds pretty sweet...and I might try it out, as will a few of my friends from WoW.
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sihmak
Knightly Guardian
Itty Bitty Disappearin Kitty!
Posts: 162
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Post by sihmak on Oct 3, 2006 15:01:32 GMT -5
Yeah I was looking at that to as well as Phantasy Star Universe idk if I will play another mmorpg, after FFXI. Just waiting for NWN2 right now and see how the Player Worlds shape up really.
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Post by Chadness on Oct 4, 2006 6:16:51 GMT -5
Its undetermined if I'll leave WOW, but most likely not. However, there are a few friends of mine who are leaving WoW for Vanguard when it comes out, at least initially, until they find out if they really like it or not.
I'll most likely try the open beta when it happens to determine if I'll buy it and invest time in it, but a lot of the ideas and concepts they have deviate (for the better) from standard MMO philosophy which both FFXI and WoW (and just about every other 2nd generation MMO) stick to firmly.
I just like the idea of not needing to gain character level to max out crafting or diplomacy, and vice versa. If all you have ambitions of doing is being a crafter, you can still travel the world looking for rare materials, buy a spot, build a store, sell your wares, etc. That's ALL you can do if you want, and still enjoy the game. In just about any other MMO, your crafting success is directly related to you leveling your character and sometimes can't even be skilled up unless you raise your character level.
Vanguard gives you more options in that regard, IMO.
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hazina
Knightly Guardian
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Posts: 174
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Post by hazina on Oct 9, 2006 11:25:12 GMT -5
Vanguard looks to be really nice, I was interested in it for a few weeks, but honestly it reminds me so much of EQII and that makes me shudder.... The one thing that is crucial for my gaming enjoyment are interesting and lively quest and story lines. And not very many mmos have that, actually so far I can count two, FFXI and The Chronicles of Spellborn. Another thing that really makes me warry are the textures of the game, they seem to be making EQ's mistake there too, relying on a great engine to make their game pretty but totally not using their texturing skills at all!! Look at those houses you can build they look like fancy carton boxes, no solidity to them at all, nothing is refined.
I may however try it in a year or two when a free trial comes out, but for now yay for FF! And I've got FF12 coming in the mail when it releases, hooray for amazon!
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Post by Chadness on Oct 9, 2006 12:26:40 GMT -5
Well, the game IS still in closed Beta atm, and I know I've heard that many of the final graphics and textures are not in the game yet, nor are many of them refined up to final release quality, so screenshots may be misleading at this point.
I'm a bit concerned now about the quest system in Vanguard, because the more I read, the more it sounds like FFXI - mostly group content, little solo content. No offense to FFXI, but that's one of the reasons why I left it, I was spending too much time going to and from group leveling locations and looking for groups that it was basically a waste of my time. However, even though the quest system sucked in FFXI, I do miss the deep, involving, "Final Fantasy-ish" stories.
WoW has a much, MUCH more robust quest system, although most of the quest lines aren't on such a grand scale like FFXI's missions are. Its seeming like Vanguard is going the likes of FFXI as far as questing and leveling - needing to be in a group for the majority of it. If that's the case, there's no way I'll go back to something like that unless the rest of the game is really, really good and the "leveling while offline" systems are very functional and work well.
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Post by Rovec on Oct 9, 2006 14:59:57 GMT -5
It does indeed look interesting Surprised you like the sound of the travel system tho Sounds a lot more tedious then FFXI's travel and ya didn't like that (Chickens as mounts, FTW!), but you're right, does sound interesting. I like the idea of building my own boat and my LS havin' a caravan But some of these things sound meh, the three sphere system sounds good and all, but people say the same type of thing about FFXI :x "Oh, you can just be lvl one and be a high lvl crafter if that's all ya wanna do!". Would be true...if you didn't have finite funds (read:60 gil) in your pocket when you start. No way to takes craftin' very high without being able to pay for it and it takes a decent lvl to farm money for/hunt your own stuff. I do like the sound of how linkshells (guilds, fellowships, w/e lol) work in it tho, wish FFXI focused more on linkshell stuff All they really are are means of communication, rest is up to you.
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hazina
Knightly Guardian
Meow
Posts: 174
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Post by hazina on Oct 9, 2006 17:16:14 GMT -5
It is tedious to achieve a lot of things in FFXI, but in a way that's why it's great too. I got really burned out last time I played trying to do everything as fast as possible. It's really not a good idea ^.^, I'd rather take my time and enjoy the times I login then stress out about the next party or if I can finish whatever goal I set myself for the night and ect.. Like last night I was in Jeuno waiting for a party, instead I ran into an old friend who was also waiting for an invite, we decided to tackle my rank 4 mission in Delfurtt! It wasn't what I was going for, but whatever, fun all the same.
I thought I'd never come back to FFXI or similar games, but after having played mmo's that are less demanding I felt like something was missing, too easy and too fast isn't good either. So in that respect Vanguard probably has a lot of years of playability ahead, although the travel system scares me too. I don't like the idea of spending one night traveling to one place so we can do a mission the next night. And it seems like you will need to move your clan around and spend a month or so in the same area to tackle all the quests in that area, or famr, mine or what else you'd need to do.... It could be interesting, but I don't know how much appeal this will have for most players.
Actually one game I am interested in is Aion, seems like there are FF elements whithout the tedium. But there's still lots that needs to be announced before we know for sure how cool it will be.
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Post by Chadness on Oct 9, 2006 22:40:30 GMT -5
On the travel system: Yes, it sounds like it will take a lot of time to get from place to place, but keep in mind, when the guild has a caravan, you will be able to travel with them while offline, so wherever they go, you go as well. While a lot remains to be seen, this is the way it was put to me by a friend in WoW who is in the closed beta of Vanguard. He said to imagine leaving town with all your supplies on horses and/or in the caravan. You travel for a "day" (most likely about an hour or less), fighting enemies along the way. You have a scout out ahead of the caravan to make sure the road is clear and to avoid any hazards your group/guild can't handle. You're on a mission to do some quests in town and to explore. You go out, find a nice spot, and set up "camp", where you can heal up and have temporary item storage while your guild goes off questing during the day (or anytime, really). When you're done questing and exploring in one area, pack up and move on to the next. He said to think of Elder Scrolls: Oblivion in how the dungeons will be set up. You won't necessarily have quests inside them, but there will be lots of loot obtainable. When you finish your time out and about, you return to the city, turn in your quests, etc.
On crafting and the "3-sphere-system": Supposedly, there are "solo" zones scattered about that are geared mainly toward soloing through certain levels, it would be in these zones that a crafter can get his supplies and/or make money. Naturally, you can also do this out and about while with a group or guild caravan, as well. That's where the "all you have to do is craft, you don't have to level" theory comes in. In reality, I have a feeling its going to be a bit more involved, but supposedly you can be a master craftsman at level 1, there aren't any level requirements on reaching certain levels of crafting like there are in other games.
I'm not bashing or defending FFXI in my statements in earlier posts, its just my opinion (and sometimes fact, like the time it takes to travel with no side benefit or "group" traveling mechanic like there promises to be in Vanguard).
And, to debunk the misconception that "faster is easier", its not, trust me. I've been playing WoW for a year and a half now and faster is definately not easier. I'm having more fun in WoW end-game than I did in FFXI end-game, and I definately have more fun leveling in WoW than I did in FFXI (other than the community factor, which was/is fun in both games).
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Post by Goero on Oct 9, 2006 23:32:06 GMT -5
im worried..
See i always dreamed of a game where my character could settle and have his own house.
But then as i became more technically proficiant and played a few games.. i realized... This was require a freaking HUGE amount of space on a server.
Mog houses are one thing, each region has a basic lay out.. then if your in YOURs in YOUR home town whatever you put in it will slowly show up.. sometimes takin like 5 minutes for even the simplest things to show up.
Now imagine walkin up to one of these such houses in Vanguard. How much detail they put into it will determine the size on the server obviously.. but thats just the outside.. need i mention how much space furnishing.. and the LAG if you had a LS even half the size of EoT standing around in the middle of a tightly enclosed space as a house would be.. @.@
These people better have something thought up for it.. the Lag will be there no matter what.. thats just an internet thing. but size and detail will beat them into the ground..
I know there have been lots of jumps in technology recently. But im still not getting my hopes up >.>
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Post by Chadness on Oct 10, 2006 7:22:15 GMT -5
Actually, I find FFXI to be the exception. I don't know if its just the fact that the game is very dated by today's standards or the fact that the servers are all in Japan. When I get "lag" in WoW, it doesn't take long to pass and is usually because of the PC itself loading about 200+ character models onto the screen at once. In FFXI the mog house decorations and such took a very long time to load up and the only character models in the house was the moogle and myself.
So, maybe its a lack of technically updated equipment on S-E's part, since the game is quite outdated. Have they even upgraded the servers since release? I don't think so. WoW has upgraded their servers twice within just two years...FFXI has been out for six years in Japan and the servers haven't been updated once.
I assume Vanguard will be housed on technically up-to-date servers and there should be very little if any lag...if there is, it is probably related to your PC loading the objects and not server lag itself.
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hazina
Knightly Guardian
Meow
Posts: 174
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Post by hazina on Oct 10, 2006 12:06:33 GMT -5
Yeah FFXI is terrible when it comes to lag, I have a new system now and it's much better but I still get some once in a while and the awful dc's too, I don't get that so much in other games.
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Post by lizhellsing on Oct 10, 2006 12:49:48 GMT -5
will everybody stooooooooooop comparing ffxi to wow !!!! there is no comparing the games are to diffeerrreennnttt
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Post by kenjimasuda on Oct 10, 2006 15:14:05 GMT -5
soo vanguard looks kinda cool. dependant on the cost (if you said it i missed it) i might check it out.
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Post by Jemini Jem on Oct 10, 2006 15:23:43 GMT -5
Sounds like another W.I.S.H.* to me. Great concept for a game, but sadly if not handled properly will fall very short due to lag and lack of content/depth in all the new innovativish areas. But yes I did look at the site and book marked it, because I'll still give it a chance CHAD!\ If I manage to catch the sign up for open beta i'll probably be testing it out, I do love new games and concepts if they work. *W.I.S.H. is this MMORPG that I beta tested a year or two back and decided not to invest in, now that I think about it, I don't think I've seen it on shelves because it fell very short of their own personal hype. Their biggest and most innovative feature here would be everyone would be playing together in one world, just not the same server to reduce on lag, though lag was still a HUGE issue, they couldn't resolve it no matter how many servers they linked together, that and the problem of crashing if one crashed it chain reacted the others. Technology just wasn't ready for that game at least.
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Post by kenjimasuda on Oct 10, 2006 15:26:43 GMT -5
remember when we beta tested Guild Wars that game was cool cept for when you are in the field fighting it was just us and no one else. very diablo 2 esc. no random saves from a passing "healing class" in case your getting owned.
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Post by Rovec on Oct 10, 2006 19:30:26 GMT -5
will everybody stooooooooooop comparing ffxi to wow !!!! there is no comparing the games are to diffeerrreennnttt Settle down there Liz They're just talkin' about Lag lol Back on the topic of the MMO tho, I've been tempted to keep an eye out for other MMOs I'd be interested in, but I think I'ma stick to what I know and wait to see what else SE comes out with. Prolly be years till I leave FFXI anywho XP Gettin' way too good now.
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Post by Goero on Oct 10, 2006 21:48:18 GMT -5
The Kind of lag im talkin about isn't the one that is remedied by a freakin uber Server or Computer. if your on dialup but you've got a 4k Memory and a 4gig processor with a Video card with 512 built on ram thats on a PCIExpress X16 with all the nice Fixings.. its nots gonna do you a world of good.. why? becuase your on dialup! Connection Speed Chad.. THIS is what im talking about! Its the throughput theory. You take a area and split its connection 1,000 times.. each person will feel the hit in their speed. and thats a SMALL number. If say 4k people per server are hittin that server and start pullin data, no matter what there will be congestion. Technology hasn't advanced far enough yet to fix this issue. Working on it though.. well Kinda >.> idiots are spending a LOT of time on Wireless.. which has some major faults.. while very flexible, is easily cracked, loosing connection randomly.. etc... yea you can't move around when wired but its a LOT harder to drive down the street in front of someones house that has wireless and pop on their network and do all the illegal acts you want.
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Post by Jemini Jem on Oct 10, 2006 23:28:55 GMT -5
Honestly from all my computer corses I've taken and personal experience, Goero is right. Technology isn't good enough to host a MASSIVE online player base for that kind of game. Unless they have a new way to store the chara data and transfer the data.
Everyone would have to have better then is available in their area kind of connections and top of the line hardware (this includes CAT6 cables and compatable cards, routers, etc) Not to mentions the servers would have to be massive, and in the gameing industry let's face it, most games are ment to be cash cows (MMORPGs included), as little work/money input for the most return possible. That company would have to invest waaay more money then they are going to for those servers.
and about lag in FFXI I never feel lag except when my internet is about to cut completely. Well In Aht A. I do, but that's because I don't have enough RAM to track 400+ people in a small zone. (yes I have 1.5 GIG plus, my ram is the ONLY thing dated on my PC due to limited funds for building)
But no argument here, you have to agree on that unless they have some sort of zone system, it's just not going to work EFFICENTLY to the general public's liking. There is to much to keep track of.
Keep that in mind that if the slight lag that is (and will be felt with any game online) felt isn't ignorable then the game will flop in a big way. A very large factor of game success on a PC is how it handles for the AVERAGE computer and connection. Gamers who keep their PC top of the line are NOT the largest part of the gaming population.
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Post by Chadness on Oct 11, 2006 6:58:47 GMT -5
Well, Vanguard is billed as a "zoneless" or "seamless" MMORPG. But, that doesn't always mean what they make it out to mean. WoW was billed as "seamless", as well, but you have zones when you switch continents and enter instances. It also only loads character models that are within a certain radius of your character, otherwise it would probably load every character model on an entire continent and lag horribly all the time. (And NO I'M NOT STARTING A WOW VS. FFXI ARGUMENT, I'M COMPARING AND KEEPING ON TOPIC YOU NOOBS!)
FFXI has loading screens between all zones, so various zones can be housed on various servers. This cuts down on the amout of lag overall in most cases, but oddly enough not in heavily populated zones or mog houses.
So, I really doubt Vanguard will be a truely "seamless" game, otherwise it will lag like crazy. I have a feeling when you enter your house, it is going to be instanced and housed on a different server. All items or graphics are in-game is numbers over an internet connection. Say you enter your personal house and there's a chest in the corner, a picture on the wall and a table in the middle of the room. When you load up, all that's sent from the server to your PC is a string of binary code that tells the game on your PC what graphic models to load. So, an increase of storage/items in a "personal house" type game mechanic isn't necessarily going to lag your connection all that much.
You don't download the graphics when they load, those are all housed on your PC (installed with the game and/or updates to the game that you download) and are dependant on your processing power, graphics card and RAM, not your internet connection (usually). This being the case, I see little issue as to the ideas presented by the Vanguard designers, because it is highly possible they can do what they do.
Games like Ultima Online, which allowed personal housing and massive amounts of storage in those houses didn't lag at all (mainly because they were simple 2D models and easy for modern PCs to load). Its pulling in the same binary from the servers to your PC to tell the game runing on your PC what to load, just like a technologically up-to-date game. Exactly the same 1s and 0s. Its the graphic models on your computer that have changed over time in various MMOs, and the processing requirements of those MMOs are where most of the lag comes from. The internet connections can handle it, PCs can not.
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Post by Jemini Jem on Oct 11, 2006 8:34:04 GMT -5
I know that the game doesn't load the graphic, and I know about the zones of seemingly seemless MMORPGS I know every character has a radius, and if it's a well thought out game this radis to say can be changed to meet the users need and equipment of how virtually far is the computer/server going to keep track of activities. (This is for people who don't know anything of this). I guess the best way to describe this for those who know nothing of game design, and programming and all that nice jazz is think of when you're in any game with a large world, doesn't even have to be an MMORPG, could even be on a console, did you ever know there was like a moutain there...or some trees that arent' there or all of a sudden a whole island appeared while you were sailing (for wind waker fans out there)? that's the evidence of this loading range, though the computer does keep track of more then you see, it only renders so much for purposes of faster game play. *thinks of wind waker and the magic appearing islands* man I wanna play that now....or D2....rofl d2 because we're talking about lag, not that I should have it with d2 anymore, but back when I was in high school and I played a lot of d2 with my friends I had dial up. sooo much lag, I could walk to the edge of the rendered area.....and see nothingness rofl. Anyways I digress. This game could be a winner for new things, if they handle what is obviously going to be thier biggest problem. Beta and stress tests are nice, but are often to small to get a real feel for how the game will actually play with a realisc number of players. That being said I'm excited about seeing how they choose to resolve what could obviously be a problem. (wow, I've been long winded lately o.o* sorry about that)
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