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Post by tarureaper on May 17, 2006 15:31:18 GMT -5
I think the no exp loss is kinda stupid actually, theres no real pentaly to dying in that game, sure u lose durability but a quick 2 gold can fix that. And the running back to your corpse thing just seemed stupid to me but w/e. Im not a WoW fan.
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Post by guinodant on May 17, 2006 15:53:40 GMT -5
yea the only reason that im playing WoW to begin with is because i dont have to sit and wait hours to actually gain exp, i can do whatever i want on that game when i want to, other then that there really is no reason that im playing it, and once i decide whether im gonna stick it out with DRG or pick another job, im probably gonna quit WoW altogether for a good long while.
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yosho
Airship Navigator
Posts: 120
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Post by yosho on May 17, 2006 16:20:07 GMT -5
If you dont like to wait, just make your own PT.... lol  |
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Post by Chadness on May 17, 2006 17:03:04 GMT -5
If you dont like to wait, just make your own PT.... lol I can make an instance party WHILE getting really good exp in WoW.  And the whole not losing exp while dying thing goes along with the focus of WoW - casual gaming. FFXI is NOT casual - and the way people's lives go these days, casual gaming is the way to go. Even S-E recognizes this, their whole latest expansion is focused at the casual gamer, they can can't rewrite fundamental (and very flawed when you compare them to modern games) game mechanics. |
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Post by tarureaper on May 17, 2006 18:30:17 GMT -5
/rant on
Well maybe some of us like to play it more than casually. WoW = too repetative for me. its just quest quest quest quest quest quest all the time. And at the same time u quest, u farm and gain exp all in one. I cant take it. Its also not very social at all. I cant stand that feeling of being alone in a MMO.
All in all, I dont want to play a game like wow because u can do everything too quickly and theres only like 2 things to do. I prefer FFXI, because theres multiple endgame things to do, you dont have to do stupid quests all the time like "kill 20 whatevers because I want you too", your character is not limited to one job AND its more of a social game. Not to mension, that when I play WoW, it doesnt feel like i've accomplished anything, because I can do it in five minutes. I'd rather take longer to do something, get that lovely ff lvl up music and get my entire party to congratulate me. The only time in WoW anyone ever says grats is when u get to lvl 60. Then u quit that character and start another right after 4 raids where u get all your ending armor.
/rant off
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Post by guinodant on May 17, 2006 20:30:32 GMT -5
If you dont like to wait, just make your own PT.... lol yea ive tried.... but its impossible for me.... >< no matter how hard i try or how long i wait, i cant get a pt (at least as DRG) ive bet ive sat a whole 2-3 days LFG in Jeuno and trying to set up my own party, but it never works, and as soon as im about to log, what happens? i get a pt invite.... i bet i have 2 dozens times that i could rant on about this but im not gonna (for your sake and mine ) as far as WoW being a casual game, thats what i meant, because right now i dont have a lot of time to be spending getting nowhere, and Taru has a good point about the quests.... they're ALL the same >< and it really really gets boring FAST @.@ i also think that the game would be so much better if it were more social, because except for instances, there's almost no need for pts or even being in a guild. Plus, when i lvl in FFXI i really feel like i accomplished something, whereas in WoW its like "hey... sweet.... i cant wait to go see what 10 things i have to collect or 15 mobs i have to kill again so i can be bored out of my mind again...." -_- ;ZZzzZzz |
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Post by Chadness on May 17, 2006 21:38:31 GMT -5
Well, since you two put your 2 gil into the quest system in WoW, I will too. ;D First off though, a comment on Taru's statement... This is, for a fact, absolutely not true at any point in the game. Yes, I said for a fact. Just because you personally apparently didn't find more than "2 things to do", does not mean there isn't. There are, at any given time, at least four (or more, when you get to the higher levels) zones to level in, a wide variety of quests, crafting, gathering (with the three pseudo-professions you can have a total of five), battlegrounds, world PVP, collecting stuff for the fair, special events every month, instances for any level range and more. That's not to mention exploration and the social aspect of the game. While I do agree, FFXI is more of a social game, you guys are making WoW out to be a solo game - its most definately not. Its true, in the first 50 or so levels, you can solo (heck, you can solo to 60 easily if you so desire)...the end-game is very social becaue you are required to party up, just like in FFXI. At end-game, I see nothing different than I did with FFXI at end-game when it comes to the social aspects. Now, the questing system. The quests you guys describe - "kill X amount of Y mobs" or "bring me A amount of item B" - really only makes up about 40-50% of the quests in the game, and even though they are only kill or collection quests (which, by the way, get less and less common the higher and higher you level), they still build on the story behind the zone you're in. In fact, one such collection quest in the higher levels leads to a series of very story driven, deep quests that results in a couple required dungeon runs and some very sweet gear at the end. In fact, the majority of collection and kill quests are only the beginning of the quest lines, most of the time its just so the NPC can "test" you out to see if your worthy to take on further responsibility - and THAT'S where the meat of the stories and quests comes into play. I mean no offense by this (obviously, you should know me by now), but those of you who haven't made it to end-game WoW and done at least 80% of the quests in the whole game available to your faction really have no room to talk about how the "whole" game is filled with collection and kill quests. Its not - not by a long shot. Now, one last thing. I'm not sure if you guys confused this term or not, but when I say "casual" I do not mean "not difficult" and I don't mean "takes less time". By "casual" I mean you can easily fit it into a very busy day-to-day real life schedule and still get things accomplished. For example, people in FFXI complain if you are in a party for less than two hours and have to go. In WoW you can easily fit a lot of stuff into whatever time you have to spend. Example #1: Yesterday I only played about 30 minutes. I logged onto my level 26 warrior and got 2 quests completed, leveled up (from 25 to 26), trained in my new abilities, bought new equipment, smelted some ore into ingots, put them on the AH an logged off. All in 30 minutes. Example #2: Today I had about an hour to play, maybe a little more. Logged on with my level 60 (max level) hunter. Put myself in a battleground queue. Got invited in about 15 minutes, ended up playing 2 battlegrounds, got roughly 50 honorable kills, lots of honor and reputation with that battleground faction. Then I put some stuff up on the AH that I had been keeping in my bank. After that I still had about 10 minutes left, so I traveled ALL THE WAY AROUND THE WORLD (not being summoned or teleported, but actual travel via the flight paths and boats) to help Cyna (you all remember her right?) kill a mob in Silithus for a quest. Then I logged off. In FFXI that time would pretty much be wasted. The 30 minutes completely wasted if I have to travel any distance at all (12 minutes for an airship? yeah...ok...). The hour would have been half used up by travel and the rest wasted because you can't get anything done besides maybe putting some stuff on the AH in 30 minutes. That's what I mean when I say "casual". I still play A LOT of WoW each week - time makes no difference. Its the USE of the time that counts.  |
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Post by tarureaper on May 17, 2006 23:24:36 GMT -5
Fact of the matter is tho chad, WoW is easier, and CAN be completed in much less time. Note: You have 1 lvl 60, and I know for a fact u have at least 2 40+.
Ok I may have lied about there only being 2 things.. theres actually 3, Quest, Raid, PVP.
Also forgive me if I didnt lvl past 36. I couldnt take killing 10 more w/e's or gathering 25 w/e's. Too boring...
Pvp was fun... until it got repetative: orc's murdering alliance. Not to mention you had to wait hours to do it at my lvl. On FFXI, u just gotta check the ballista times, gear up for the cap, and get goin.
Also I played for an hour earlier today. Guess what I got done. Got a pt right when I logged on, gained 7k exp, logged out. An hour is NOT useless in ffxi.
You talked bout the storys in each zone. Half the time they r like, gather me this, then I will give u a quest to go kill this and that. Once u do that u can fight this and then u can get out of my zone. Every zone story I went through was the same.
Travel time isnt much of an issue in FFXI. You dont always have to wait 12 minutes to get on the airship, sometimes its already there, sometimes its not, if you dont wanna wait you can get a tele or get a chocobo.
You also talk as if there is no story in FFXI, check out CoP, do the missions, the ZMs, the ToAU missions. Theres lots of story there, you just have to look in the right place.
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Post by lizhellsing on May 18, 2006 3:48:11 GMT -5
orc's murdering alliance lol?
u mean orcs taurens trolls and undead =p oh and soon to be added blood elf ^^
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Post by tarureaper on May 18, 2006 6:57:17 GMT -5
yeah yeah
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Post by Rovec on May 18, 2006 10:53:39 GMT -5
*sips tea, watches the rants, and ponders if Night Elves keep their left heel off the ground at all times like Elvaans do*
I've never gotten into WoW, so I'm gonna let you two fight it out. I like the Hardcoreness of FFXI (cause we all know that if I could solo to the cap, I'd have all the jobs there in about 2 months :3).
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Post by Chadness on May 18, 2006 15:11:51 GMT -5
I'll comment on each of Taru's rebuttles. Did I get you a bit riled up Taru? Didn't really mean to...so I'll preface what I say below with this: Different games appeal more to different types of players and different people in general. This does not make one game or aspects of the game better or worse than any other game, it just means that individual people prefer one over the other. I know you've heard me say this before, but time does not equal difficulty. Both the games are the same in terms of difficulty. Time is a non-factor in the difficulty rating. It is not difficult to sit in a party for four hours, it just takes time. Just as in WoW, it is not difficult to get, for example, rank 10 in PVP (I think it's Knight-Captain or something like that), because all you do is sit in BGs all day fighting people - it just takes time. Conversely, it IS difficult to do an ENM, for example, even though it doesn't really take a whole lot of time. Just like in WoW it IS difficult to do an Onyxia raid, even though it really doesn't take a whole lot of time. Again, time does not equal difficulty. The two are completely seperate aspects of MMORPGs. You must have missed it earlier when I listed at least six or eight things to do at any given time...  See my first statement in this post about different types of game aspects being for different people. Also, the first 40 levels of FFXI are pretty darn boring too. Not a valid point because the "wait" times for both types of PVP are about the same. And, you can do whatever you want while waiting for them both. So, pretty similar concept. When I was playing FFXI, if you couldn't stay for, at the very minimum, two hours, you didn't join our party. I know some people who had a higher time requirement - most of the hardcore end-gamers in FFXI do, in fact, when they party up. I never once got 7k exp per hour, even in our best parties. It was more like 4-5k exp. Oh yeah, must be that nifty new paladin refresh. I'm sorry, but you're wrong. If all you got were those, then you must've missed the good quests (kinda hard to do, but possible). Also, what you describe is not story, its basic quest design. The story is what you read before you accept each quest. Or, are you among the majority of WoW players who don't bother to read that? This is true. But I can guarantee you I can get from any point to any point in WoW faster than you can get from any point to any point in FFXI. Not using summons, teleports or any sort of warping or hearthstone. Just strait transportation - chocobos, boats, gryphons, airships. I can guarantee you. I said no such thing, nor did I imply it. I simply talked about how good the story-driven quests are in WoW. FFXI does one thing a lot better than WoW - that is a very hard-hitting, engrossing, creative, well-written story (in fact, many different story lines). And I loved that about the game. But, WoW does the smaller things better - getting you involved in the NPC's everyday lives, learning the history of a zone, exploring every inch of a zone, teaching you how to use your class abilities to the max, etc. In that aspect, WoW trumps FFXI. |
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Post by guinodant on May 18, 2006 16:42:15 GMT -5
you both have good points, and i really cant say much seeing how im only lvl 34 (but im buying a friend's account with a 51 on it.... long story) in WoW, and only 46 in FFXI, but i guess i started playing WoW hoping that it would be everything that FFXI is plus more, but in truth, you cant really compare the 2, they are totally seperate games, who both happen to be MMO's. They both cater to different styles of games and ppl. It's cool to say you dont like something because of they way its done, but dont say that you think its bad or say that so-and-so does it better (im guilty of this too) because those 2 things are totally different. sort of the idea of cultural relativism, but in a gaming sense. |
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Post by Rovec on May 18, 2006 17:48:44 GMT -5
I agree with Guin, I mean, I really like FFXI and I actully liked (The 5 something lvls) of what I played on WoW. They're both good, but I just like FFXI better...for a few reason and because I'm a fanboy. Get off my back >.> lol
As for what Taru said about the 7k during an hour of play. Get this, Prophet was just in a party that got 18k exp an HOUR in the new zone. So, it's possible lol And the 2 hour limit thing is just your personal way of playin', I know a few people that'll pt if they have an hour (but gotta have longer then that cause of the lfg factor). I however, like to have about 8 hour >_>; lol It's all up to how you play.
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Post by Chadness on May 18, 2006 18:37:40 GMT -5
Yeah, I completely forgot about the time it takes you to look for a group in FFXI. And, while you can still do other things while LFG, you can't get any decent amount of exp unless you're a select couple classes.
Another thing I prefer about WoW - want to look for a group for an instance run? Go get some exp while you're at it, no problem!
Anyway, I also agree with Guin and try to temper my statements with mostly opinion. But, I do state fact when facts are called for, and there are some factual differences between the games, such as the basic "WoW is more popular than FFXI". That's a fact and no one can dispute it. FFXI has not yet a million accounts, while WoW has over six million active accounts. Numbers back up my statement.
Stuff like that is hardly opinion when you look at the numbers. But, this isn't a popularity contest, and which game is "better" isn't a fact, its an opinion. Fact = no game is better than any other game.
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Post by Goero on May 18, 2006 21:14:09 GMT -5
ok ive ignored this thread long enough....
WHY IN DEAR GOD ARE WE HAVING THIS ARGUMENT AGAIN?!
I THOUGHT WE ALL AGREED THAT XI WAS BETTER AND CHAD WAS A N00BLING!
(j/k Chad ^^ you know i love ya!)
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Post by Chadness on May 18, 2006 22:30:44 GMT -5
Fact = Goero is a n00b
;D
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Post by tarureaper on May 18, 2006 23:20:53 GMT -5
Time can in many cases = difficulty. It, in most peoples cases, takes years to reach endgame in FFXI, and yet on WoW you've reached/almost reached end game on multiple characters. Also if you look at quest difficulty, most WoW quests can be completed fairly easily and in a short amount of time. FFXI quests are in most cases MUCH harder. Ex: You've blown CoP off as useless for the most part because the Promys are too difficult to complete because you didnt want to devote the time and effort into it to get it done. ToAU has been deemed usless by some because the difficulty involves them putting in too much time and effort to get things done. Again I want to say that Time in many cases does equal difficulty.
Note regarding promys: Strange how I devoted much time into a difficult task and completed it while most members of the ls wont even give it the time of day because they dont want to join partys that do it, but reley on the other slackers of the ls. They arnt willing to devote time with people they dont know to work together to get something done.
Most of the things u listed ex:
Most of these, are actually a part of exping in the game. You wait for pvp while you lvl. You craft while you do quests, you gather while you do quests. Instances are just quests in dungeons for christs sake. Almost everything you do in WoW ammounts to you getting exp.
You can walk right into dioramas, brenners at any given time, and you can look to see what time a specific match you want to be in is when. Its not a waiting game to when you might be transported into WoW pvp.
People will throw hissy fits, it doesnt stop you from leaving. It depends on you, and how you want to get things done.
Note: you were mostly limited because of your static that you agree'd to.
The fact of the matter is, im not limited in that way and therefor I dont really care if you can get from IF to Darnasus faster than I can get from Jeuno to Sandy faster by using a mount. I CAN teleport, I CAN take airships and I CAN warp. Not to mension all travel before lvl 40 sucks in WoW (imo) anyways. You have to ride from fixed point A to fixed point B. On FFXI I can get on a mount at Fixed point A and ride to whereever I want, and I can do all this at lvl 20.
my question is, does it really matter why Mrs. WoW wants you to get rat guts to make her special pie? No not really. Does it ammount to any sort of major plot line in the game. No. Does anyone really care why Mrs. WoW wants a pie? No, thats why (as you said) most people in WoW do not read the quests. Because 97% of the time its stupid bs.
Not at all, but I feel I deserve a chance to argue my opinions.
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Post by Goero on May 19, 2006 0:13:38 GMT -5
-.-
i think Taru just likes listenin to himself talk.. or type.. or whatever... >.>
and yes.. Chad.. i may be a n00b... but now im a lvl 70 n00b! Take that n00blet!
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Post by Chadness on May 19, 2006 6:35:51 GMT -5
I'm not going to continue arguing this fact, but will just say that you're not quite getting my point. You're still stuck on the thinking that "if I spend loads of time at it then it must be really, really tough!" Here's an example: I sit at work in a cubicle for eight hours every weekday for my job. My job IS NOT difficult by any stretch of the imagination - a lot of data entry, printing maps and drawing lines on the screen. I spend 40 hours per week at work, yet that does not mean its difficult. Now, in FFXI, I might spend 20 hours a week in a party with five other people sitting and killing the same monster over and over and over and over again. That doesn't make it difficult. Partying was VERY easy. Just because I spent so much time to get to 75 does not make it difficult. Its a heck of a time sink, yes. But difficult? No. Just takes a lot of time. If you care to argue this point more, be my guest, but I can't put the concept any clearer than that. That's a moot point. The fact is, they are there to do. That's like saying that most of the stuff to do in FFXI results in getting you some piece of equipment. The fact remains, its there and available to do. On a side point, who actually crafts while you level? I usually need a Forge for engineering and my rods for enchanting. Forges are in towns and cities (usually) and my rods are in the bank. Heh, maybe. But, you can do world PVP at any time you want, and that will come to the forefront in the expansion, as well.  True dat. The static has nothing to do with it though...when we wanted to exp, we were usually limited on time (about four hours each session usually), so we didn't want people interrupting our exp time by leaving. That's the reason we always made sure they could stay at least two hours. You're dodging the point. I CAN warp around in WoW like you can in FFXI, too, ya know. And I will take my pre-40 character and say the same thing above - I can get from any point to any point in WoW before you can get from any point to any point in FFXI. We could even the odds and say no mounts at all, then I'd REALLY be able to get anywhere a lot faster than you could. But, like I said, you were dodging the point anyway. Actually, you're wrong. "Does it amount to any sort of major plot line in the game?" Yes, it does in most cases. To start with, you can't really compare the two basic STORY builds of the two seperate games, because the STORIES are told in a different way. And I touched on this in a previous post where I defined the two ways the different games develop the stories that they tell. I'd say probably 90% of the quests in WoW relate in some way to explaining the corruption in a certain region of the world. Elwynn Forest quests relate a lot to the Defias or other groups of bad people, and that whole story doesn't even culminate until you reach about level 50...and, it eventually leads you to the quests in Burning Steppes. At which point you find out where the REAL corruption lies, and why the sudden surge in rebel groups like the Defias Brotherhood. All the corruption in Azeroth relates to one thing, and one thing only - the Burning Legion invasion of that world. That brought about the scourge, it brought about all the deterioration of life and people's minds, like we see in Darkshore, Felwood and Duskwood, it brought about the break up of the Troll empire which is the focus of a lot of quests in Arathi Highlands, Tanaris and Stranglethorn Vale. I mentioned the Scourge, that stemmed from the invasion of the Burning Legion, as well, and is the focus of quests in Tirasfal Glades, Hillsbrad Foothills and the plaguelands. There's even hints that the Silithid invasion in Kalimdor stemmed from the Draenei crashing on Azeroth, which directly relates again to the Burning Legion. Nearly every quest line in the game ultimately leads you to the main problem that plagues the world of Azeroth - the Burning Legion. And, that story will definately be extended and come to the forefront in the expansion. Both games have a very intreaging and engrossing story, they just get to the meat of the matter in different ways. Its more direct in FFXI, it takes time in WoW. So, for a fact, your statement above is not true. |
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And the whole not losing exp while dying thing goes along with the focus of WoW - casual gaming. FFXI is NOT casual - and the way people's lives go these days, casual gaming is the way to go.
True dat. The static has nothing to do with it though...when we wanted to exp, we were usually limited on time (about four hours each session usually), so we didn't want people interrupting our exp time by leaving. That's the reason we always made sure they could stay at least two hours.